I’ve never had a mentor, and that’s okay
Penelope Trunk told me that she couldn’t be my mentor. “You’re too difficult,” was what she said. At the time I didn’t care because I thought that I hated her. Emotions run high in early-stage start ups. Ours was no exception.
Over time I realized that I didn’t really hate Penelope. What I really hated was my lack of confidence when becoming self employed. Once I figured that out, we became friends.
A friend. Not a mentor. I have learned plenty about myself just from being around her, but I don’t want to be like her. I have a lot of people like this in my life.
Trial and error is my mantra. I’ve always learned things the hard way. It makes sense that I would ally myself with people I don’t typically agree with. Things are more interesting that way, and you learn more too.
When is the last time that you learned anything about yourself without conflict? The biggest lesson that I learned in 2009 was to push back when people are expecting too much out of me. I learned to set expectations for people, and if they didn’t like it, tough luck. I didn’t learn how to do this through someone I wanted to be like, I learned it through people who are nothing like me at all.
In essence, the big epiphany moments, the light bulbs, every “a-ha” was something that I came to when I stepped closer towards people I didn’t want to be like and further from people who made me feel comfortable. Chaos has been my muse, and so far she’s treated me quite well.
Life would be boring without the people that make us tick. They force us to think in different ways because we want to debate their ideas. Some days we win, others we lose. In the end, we all learn something.
I’ve never had a mentor in the traditional sense, and I think that maybe I don’t need one. I’m not the type of person who needs people to hold in high regard. I just need people who push me. And usually the best person to do that is someone who is not very much like me at all.
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34 Responses for "I’ve never had a mentor, and that’s okay"
"What I really hated was my lack of confidence when becoming self employed." I think that is a terrific line. We feel uncomfortable because that person resonates with something inside ourselves we don't want to face. People we love strike beautiful chord but expecting them to show us how to touch unused mental strings are too much. It all goes back to us. Needless to say I love seeing you and Penelope exchanging ideads (with the audience). Waves of exploration, improvised.
Ryan,
I love the part where you said,"I learned to set expectations for people, and if they didn’t like it, tough luck." I learned that far later in life than I wish.
I have sought out mentors at many different stages of my life and career – all for different reasons but there is nobody I look back on as a true mentor. In the past few years I have looked at the idea of mentorship in a totally different light, mainly because I think the word is thrown around so cavalierly that in many respects it has lost its meaning. But then again I think being in the "mentee" position never worked for me because looking UP to someone else in that way never felt right for me either.
Like you said, what I really want is for someone to push me and tell the truth. And interestingly enough Penelope was that person for me. For years and years I have worked with coaches/mentors/consultants etc but nobody told me the truth like Penelope did. Two hours on the phone with her and I felt like I had been seriously bitch slapped and it was exactly what I needed to get my act together.
Well said.
Melani
Nice! Glad to hear you don't hate Penelope. haha.. My girl friend and I devoured her posts within two weeks once we came across her blog. She's my #1 blog to read for sure.
"Life would be boring without the people that make us tick. They force us to think in different ways because we want to debate their ideas." I feel the same way about my boss. Growing up is fun to do.
So true, Ryan. I've learned so much more in my current position, where I'm working with people who I radically disagree with on pretty much everything than in my last position in a feminist/prog org where difference was not so apparent. I wouldn't say the experience has been particularly comfortable all the time, but growth isn't comfortable, right? I've come to accept where I'm at, and keep pushing on, pushing for change. It's pretty cool, when I'm able to step back from the frustration and think about it like that.
All true Ryan, perhaps with the exception of needing conflict. You grow and learn by pushing at the edges of what you know and what you're comfortable with, but that doesn't have to mean there's a "conflict".
If you've figured out how to push at those edges by yourself then well done – it takes some folks years to be willing and able to do that.
It's interesting how folks percive mentors in the traditional top-down way, but I think the term can apply to anyone who pushes you to learn something. Can't it?
I really like this Ryan. I often thought I needed a mentor as a young entrepreneur. However, the more I experiment and connect with other people, the more I learn about what works for me. Maybe it is because I think uniquely and don't want to follow a predictable path or maybe some other reason. Anyhow, it is comfortable to know that others feel similarly.
This all makes sense, but I'll interject one small opinion on your situation:
You're a damn good mentor yourself. You push back when you need to, but you're also a really giving person with your friends and coworkers at the end of the day and that's a rare and valuable trait to have. I'd suggest that maybe you inadvertently develop a mentor-like situation with a lot of people by being helpful and giving good perspective when they aren't able to sort stuff out on their own.
Maybe you learn as much about yourself through all these encounters as you would from having a mentor in your life who's accomplished a lot.
I guess the short version of all this is that you see a lot of things in people that you maybe either want for yourself or definitely don't want for yourself and you internalize it and customize it for yourself so that you can be the best person/professional possible.
Just a thought. Good post buddy.
I also didn't really have all that many mentors that I feel open asking certain questions to. I like this blog post in general, as I think a lot of people on BC are great mentors (including you) in the self-help community. Good length too.
I was thinking about that a lot when I wrote this. I considered taking that line out, but I kept it because I thought it was interesting that when I thought about mentors I immediately thought of them as idols.
There have been a lot of people in my life that I consider to be "lighthouses" and maybe they are mentors too. I've just never considered calling them that.
Thanks Stanley, that's really nice of you to say. One thing that I do love about Brazen Careerist is all of the peer-to-peer mentoring that takes place. Learning from my peers has always been a positive experience for me.
I learn a lot from my improv with Penelope. We debate a lot off camera and it's nice to be able to share that experience with everyone.
There's probably more cursing when the camera is not rolling …
The first 2-3 months of working with Penelope were like being bitch slapped over and over. I know what you're saying
What I didn't write about in this post is how to know when to walk away from these types of people. I'm going to have to write about that soon.
The people who make us tick make life more interesting and teach us a lot, but at some point I think that you outgrow what they can teach you and then they're just a pain in the ass
Thanks for reminding me that I need to write a post about that too.
Yes, change isn't comfortable. It often sucks.
When you can't step back from the frustration any longer and look at it from this perspective then you're probably ready to move on. I mentioned above to Juliana that I think it's time to reevaluate what you're willing to put up with when you feel like you've stopped learning.
I think that my idea of what a mentor is probably differs from a lot of people's (see Ty's comment below). That's a whole other debate and I am totally open to the possibility that my definition sucks …
I feel like I've always needed conflict, Steve. Maybe that's because I'm not good at pushing at the edges on my own. Maybe that's not true for everyone though. Thanks for making me think about it a little differently.
Maybe we're just rebels, David. Rebels without a cause …
I have no idea why I think this way. It could be because I'm stubborn. Or maybe it's something else. Whatever it is, I'm also comforted by the fact that I am not the only one out there who is thinking like this.
Thanks JR. I'm glad that you think I am a good mentor. I'm also glad that you think I am good at knowing when to push back. I really don't like pushing back. It's good that you don't think that I do it too much.
I think the way that you explained my mentor-like situation. I like to think that I learn a lot about myself through helping other people figure out their problems. So maybe I should just keep doing what I am doing …
Thanks for reading my post. And thanks for helping me stay motivated. You're a friend.
[...] if they actually smash a lot of dreams before they ever get started. After reading Jun Loayza and Ryan Paugh’s posts about mentors I decided to share with you the comment I left on Jun’s blog. Here is my [...]
I have never had a mentor, and I think I have honestly suffered from it.
I don't totally agree with your assessment of what a mentor is. I don't think there is any requirement to worship them, or to be their lapdog. A an ideal mentor to me would be one who recognized my talent, but showed me how to use it. And when I wasn't making the best use of it, or found myself floundering, (as I often do) could be a lighthouse to direct me where I should focus my energy.
I have talent and energy, but I have never had much direction. I have been pretty aimless for much of my life, and have only just now started to believe I am righting the course, ever so slightly. If I had had a mentor as a teen or college student, someone that could have helped me sort out how to do things, instead of just bouncing off the walls of the cave in the dark until I either found the mouth or knocked myself unconscious, I'd be in a better place today.
Trial and error is vital, of course. But people have to have at least enough resources and knowledge to know how and where to try something. If one has money or connections or something, then maybe shots in the dark can be more productive. But for a lot of people, like myself, a bit of direction isn't bad, and can be quite good.
And at no time would I feel the need to brown nose said mentor.
The first 2-3 months of working with Penelope were like being bitch slapped over and over. I know what you're saying
I definitely subscribe to the notion of a mentor as a "guiding light" (based upon Eric Liu's book on the subject). Doesn't really matter what we call them, just as long as we have some in our lives. And often, our mentors are the ones that introduce conflict, often intentionally, in order to bring about all the things you mentioned in this post. A good mentor knows not to hold your hand. As Liu described it, a good mentor will show you where the light is located, but you have to be the one to flip the switch.
You're writing reminds me a bit of Penelope. Wondering if you loathe me for saying it.
Re: "Trial and error is my mantra. I’ve always learned things the hard way. It makes sense that I would ally myself with people I don’t typically agree with. Things are more interesting that way, and you learn more too."
You know, I've always thought that we learn from our own mistakes but also from the experience (both good and bad) of others. Which is why at an early age I always reached out to business owners, entrepreneurs, executives and more to ask them questions about their work (where they've succeeded, where they've failed, etc).
My question is how to find people who won't just agree with you. I hired a coach in Chicago a few months ago to get some constructive criticism on my public speaking. I could think of several local people who I thought did a good job as a speaker, but all of them would have just told me how wonderful I am and that they love me. Which really doesn't help me to become a better speaker.
Without picking fights with everyone you encounter I find it difficult to find good sources to challenge me, help me refine my output, and to generally add spice to life. I am relegated to reading blog posts or watching video seminars ala your blogging seminar with Penelope last not in order to get challenged (or insulted)!
I am with you on the concept though that people grow when challenged by others!
Ryan, I definitely feel you on this. I think my answer to this conundrum is to have partial mentors– people who:
1)share some of my values/aspirations, or who understand what I want (even without wanting it themselves),
2/have more experience– and therefore perspective–than I do, and
3/ (this is key) who like me enough to take the time to give me regular feedback and guidance.
So my ex-CEO shares my drive and ambition, and his advice encourages me not to settle and to believe in myself. A high-up at my current job gets my need to travel and have my personal boundaries pushed– he's encouraged me to take even more initiative, fill resource gaps and step in where I am needed- even if the learning curve is huge. Etc.
I try to draw from each the best lessons they can teach me, and find other mentors for the parts they can't help me with.
People that kiss your a$$ are not the very people that you can be comfortable to grow and learn with. These are the people that do not challenge nor help you become better. You become stuck at them always singing praises and it's good to see people that disagree with you in a good way. One of the many things that I like about Penelope (and now with Ryan) is that they're both non-traditional. These people do not just teach you to do good but to be really good by telling you what you lack.
I am totally hooked to Penelope's blog and though there are times that I do not agree with her, I realize that her thoughts were intellectually stimulating, they make me realize that hey, this is what I think about this subject. I used to be apathetic about the things around me until I realize that in order for me to make a change, I need to identify the things I wanna be improved. First step to success is coming to the realization of what you really want. Everyone we meet can create impacts in our lives, it doesn't matter be it great or small, we get to learn from everyone.
Ty, mentoring is seen in both ways: brown nosing and someone who sees talent and helps you be better. The problem is, in my eyes, there are too many people seeking mentors. There is not enough mentors to go around, or they don't want to be bothered with it.
I never had a mentor. Many leaders in the community I live in wouldn't spend 5 seconds introducing themselves to me or take the time to know who I am. Many of my peers buy their books, go to all of their events, and inundate them with requests to be their mentors.
It used to bother me that I don't get noticed for the things I've accomplished so far in my professional life. I have come to accept the fact that "you" have to be your own mentor. You have to learn from your own mistakes, know your strengths and weaknesses, and stop expecting someone to take you under their wings, as well as expecting them to accept your offer to be your mentor.
I don't loathe that at all. Penelope has been a big influence in me as a writer. It's funny that people think that I hate her. I just hate working with her sometimes
Asking people questions is a great way to find a mentor if you need one. I always tell people on Brazen that the best way to get connected with new people is to ask good questions. I think that rule applies in any networking situation.
Like I mentioned in my blog post the most influential people in my life have been the people who are least like me. So maybe look for people with different work styles and go from there. Penelope and Ryan Healy and have very different work styles that I do and it's challenging every single day. I learn a lot from it.
Great idea. Maybe we call them "co-mentorships" or something like that … I feel like you guys and some of my friends over on Brazen are my co-mentors. You guys challenge my ideas and let me know that I'm headed in the right direction. That's one of the great things about blogging is learning from each other.
Penelope and I rarely agree on things except that we both hate our office and wish that we could work from home more. The difference is that she actually does it and I just site here and bitch about it. See! There's something I should be learning from someone I rarely agree with
I feel like there's nothing wrong with wanting to be noticed. I would actually think about this a little bit and try to find out why you're not getting enough recognition. It's possible that you're not communicating your successes well enough. I've fell into this trap before and I think the answer is letting people know what you're doing well. Just don't be braggy … It's a fine line, but you can do it.
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